Photography by Graham Tait
Interview by Kieron Forbes & George Horler
I spent no less than 2 days thinking about how I could make this a compelling introduction. Something worthy of Bourdain or even Irvine Welsh but I’m neither and I can only write about what I know, not what I think I know. Michael Tarry is a workhorse and cerebral. Bookish but handsome. Someone with less class would say “brains and brawn”. He climbed a mountain for skateboarders in Palestine recently and a few months prior, I watched him polish off a bottle of vermouth in the dark on a roof in Seville. This interview rambles a bit and maybe errs on the side of pseudo-intellect much like this introduction but I’m confident we cover some new ground.
Michael is a good skateboarder but more importantly a great friend, motivated, inspiring, sometimes frustrating, often funny and easy to admire. Entirely shot in Scotland over the space of 15 days, it was a pleasure to see my home country through new eyes. - Kieron Forbes.
George: So Michael, was it way harder than you thought it was going to be? (climbing Mont Blanc to raise money for SkatePal)
Ugh, it's going to sound anticlimactic, but it was way easier than I expected it to be. That being said, I wouldn’t say it was an easy climb. I’d never experienced that kind of altitude before, exerting your body like that above 4,500m – we climbed from the valley in Italy for seven hours the first day, slept in a refuge for four hours and made the ascent and descent over into the Chamonix valley in France over a further 15 hours. We had spent three weeks climbing other mountains prior, and I’d learnt so much in that time and had tackled a lot of intense shit. By the time it came to Mont Blanc I felt like it wasn’t anything I hadn’t done before, and to be honest I was stoked on that. My brother was happy to sit back and let me lead the entire climb from start to finish and we got to just enjoy being up there together. After so much hard work it felt like a real victory lap.
Kieron: So what was the overall training time then?
I was in the Alps for five days at the start of June, and then went out again on the 12th June, spending pretty much every day making one or two day climbs until the 2nd and 3rd July when we did Mont Blanc. So it was more or less three and a half weeks of practical training. Prior to that in January, I started a set plan of weight training, swimming, running, boxing and studying anything mountaineering related from knot tying to types of snow.
Noseslide
Kieron: Fuck.
And we realised when I was up there that we had overprepared heavily, though we sort of knew we were doing that from the start. I could have come to Mont Blanc, taken a week to train and had my brother or a guide lead me up but a big factor of why I was doing it was that I wanted to learn everything. I wanted to go into climbing with respect for the sport and for the environment I was in. Learn it all myself, and then have a base level for all the future years that me and my brother will spend as climbing partners.
Kieron: The same attitude to everything you do!
The normal route of Mont Blanc is where you basically take a train or a lift up to a certain point, hike up to the refuge, stay there and acclimatise and then go up and then back down. That’s actually not that hard to do. It's obviously difficult, but you can do that in your 60s. You could go for a week, pay a guide X amount of money, and they’ll probably take you on one climb, you'll sleep at a refuge to acclimatise, and then you'll get dragged up to the summit, and you'll probably fucking struggle really heavily through it.
Kieron: I mean that just screams ultimate tourism, doesn’t it?
Exactly.
Gap to Bs Lipslide
Kieron: I think that's what's kind of interesting about you living in Barcelona as long as you have, but definitely being in Poland with you, in Seville with you, and in Scotland with you. The last thing you ever want to feel like is a tourist.
Yeah, I guess that is true. I got to kind of go into my brother's world and just live and climb with his friends and spend time with all his mates. You meet so many people on all these climbs and on all these mountains – I really felt immersed in it and was so grateful for being able to be there, especially with my brother.
George: Yeah, so it’s like you’re so ready that you've kind of already done the climb.
Yeah. The start of the climb is the most technical climbing, doing it from the Italian route. That's the technical bit, and then you join the normal route where all the punters are. Then it’s just a slog really, just walking uphill. But the Italian bit, you do part of it in the dark and then you're meant to be on more exposed sketchy bits at first light. We basically raced through the whole thing without realising, and did the entire thing in the dark, like in pitch darkness.
Kieron: So what, were you just oblivious or just that prepared?
I think prepared. I was definitely nervous but you know, as nervous as you should be when you're in a consequential situation like that.
Kieron: So what was the impact of promising to the public that you're climbing Mont Blanc? Is it the same as saying to me or to Ben (Dixon) or whoever, "I'm going to do this trick." Is it a promise that makes you do it? Like you don't want to let someone down?
Yeah, sometimes you make claims to things and that means that you have made the commitment to doing it – if you don't approach it with the right attitude, reminding yourself that you have chosen to be there, it can feel like you're going to your own execution, but you're the one who's fucking signed the bill! So I try to go into those things looking at them as something I'm stepping up to that I have claimed, yet ultimately want to do.
In terms of putting myself out there in the way I did, it affected me a hell of a lot! I've never put myself out there as publicly as I did before in my life. And to try and get the amount of money that I got together, I was messaging people on a weekly basis that I knew, friends of friends, brother’s friends, family friends etc. I was speaking to old employers, old work mates, my students, their parents and the companies that I teach. I couldn't have made myself more public about what I was going to try and do for the last six months. And making your opinion clear and explaining actually why you’re raising money puts you in a much more public position than when you claim a trick to your mates. So I definitely built it all up a lot in my head.
George: You told us you had a bit of a biblical experience up there on the climb.
Haha yeah. I mean by the end I was feeling such an appreciation for where I was. On some of these summits you just get this total sensory overload, and often get quite emotional and existential. You look around and you're above the clouds and you can see the curvature of the earth and the atmosphere and your feet are on the ground and you really feel like you don’t deserve to be there.
On the Mont Blanc ascent, after climbing through the glacier we got to the ridge line and were hit with this arctic wind – super loud, blasting at us, kind of numbing my head. And by the time we got to the last saddle before getting to where you could see the summit, we were completely in a cloud. I was slightly melancholic and I'd felt this kind of build up, that we were really getting to the summit and all of it kind of started playing in my head. I remember saying to my brother, "this doesn't feel right, we're in the cloud, this isn't right!" – and then in like a split second, the wind disappeared and it went dead silent, you couldn't hear anything. And my brother says, "look behind you" and in the parting cloud was a fucking Brocken spectre, those circular rainbows which you get in high mountains in the clouds. There was a perfect spectre with the shadow of Mont Blanc, me and my brother standing in the shadow.
The cloud opened out to the whole view of the mountains, and then we looked to the right of us, and the entire Western Alps was there below, all in the triangle shadow of Mont Blanc. As we were walking up, we were looking up at the summit and there's a cloud that's kind of rolling over the top of the summit but not touching it – it really felt like we’d been granted access. As we reached the summit, all that cloud sat on top of us and we were just in this soft, yellow, sunrise-tinted nothingness. We left, and soon all that cloud disappeared showing us the whole mountain in its glory. It was like we had been invited up there, had spent our time, and then left. Total hand of God shit.
We met two older women at the summit who were incredibly excited, both English. They took our photo and told us to come and get the photo when we got to their refuge. I got to their refuge and they said that they were spending another night there, and had a hotel spa and breakfast booked for the next day and that they wanted to give it to us. It all couldn’t have gone any smoother.
Fs Nosebluntslide
George: So, Michael, what's it like skateboarding for a “Scottish” skateboard company?
Kieron: Yeah, and what was your perception of the brand before you knew anybody really?
I've always appreciated companies in skateboarding that have a proper creative direction and creative identity and I think that Garden is that, and always was that. I think it's so common for people to think that because they know what's cool, they can produce what's cool too. I think a lot of people think they can just pick up graphic design and be good at it, and end up producing a lot of regurgitative shit.
I think Garden isn't something that feels replicable. My perception was that it was something that was really sick, but was in a very developmental stage and I will always be keen to be a part of something that has a direction and a foundation that you're building on. That's always going to be exciting to me. Ellis (Gardiner) being involved played a massive part too, because he's one of my best mates. So it felt like a good fit.
As for my view of Garden as a Scottish company, I don't know, how do you feel about it being identified as a Scottish company, rather than just a skateboard company?
Kieron: Well, when we started, Flatspot did an interview with us and that question came up and I just said: we're a skateboard company, full stop. If I’d said at the time that we were from, I don't know, Shropshire, would people be like, "oh, it's an English company?" Or would they call it a British skateboard company? I will always be Scottish, I’m reminded of that on a daily basis, but I'm not Scottish enough for Scotland anymore because I don't live there.
I think that it's a skateboard company that carries with it a lot of Scottish identity because of you, because it comes from you guys. And I think that it will also naturally carry with it a certain sentiment that has an element of Scottishness to it.
Fs Flip
Kieron: Identity is so wrapped up in geographic proximity that it's like, are you just from here because you were born here?
I get a huge kick out of getting to go to a person’s home turf when I’ve met them and got to know them outside of it. It’s the most heartwarming shit ever, getting to watch someone in their back garden. I think also Scottish identity and Irish identity and Welsh identity are majorly different from English identity because you guys are inherently very proud, for obvious reasons. Being proudly English has horrible connotations attached to it, even though I wouldn’t say I dislike being English. National identity and nation are two very different things. Getting to go to Scotland and shoot this interview was special because I've always known Scottish people, yet I've never known them in Scotland. I've known them outside of their home turf. I really enjoyed coming to somewhere on the same land mass as where I’m from yet so wildly different. To go around with you two and Graham and for you all to just show me your stomping ground.
George: Storries! (Edinburgh pie shop)
Kieron: There's something really nice about that, Leith was predominantly my home when I lived in Edinburgh and George's home is there, and you guys are visiting – taking you to this place that I went to since I was a kid, where a person that worked there got me into skateboarding; Lee Wilkie.
It seems more and more that things are narrowing in to be this frame of reference. Everything is matching up. Everything has a link. The threads will just start tying themselves together. It certainly felt like that. And going to Edinburgh with you guys was a very nice moment. It was incredibly circular and romantic.
George: Yeah, and then taking you and Benny around to spots that me and Kieron have been going to the whole time we’ve known each other, to some spot in the Gyle, and for you to get a trick there, it’s meaningful – maybe just to us, but I think it shows.
I think you can see that stuff in skating, the sentiment is everything. And when you see footage or a photo, it has that greater significance as a result.
Fs Lipslide
Kieron: And that's kind of what's hard to put into words, it could be a bank. It could be a bank anywhere in the world, but because it's a bank in fucking Dumbiedykes in Edinburgh, it means something. The same way that it would be like, "Oh, I'm gonna skate this handrail in Brighton because it means something", it has to have purpose. At this point in skateboarding if it doesn't, it’s just going to be so cut and dry that nothing's going to matter. It's going to be like anybody could be doing it, you know, like some amorphous person in a fucking white suit.
Kieron: Do you think people enjoy your skateboarding? Why do you think you push yourself as hard as you do?
Damn. If you're someone who understands from experience or just understands how I approach skateboarding, yes. If you're someone who doesn't look that deep into it, it might come across that I find it very difficult and struggle a lot with it. The enjoyment can come from just skating or it can come from the rewards of skating, and I get a little bit of both. I think the whole ‘you should always be having fun’ mentality in skating is unrealistic. Skating is something we love, and something you love isn’t always going to be fun. I don’t think Dougie (George) or Ellis (Gardiner) or whoever is thinking about how much fun it all is while they’re two hours into trying something. I think they’re trying to get something done that they’re proud of. So in asking why I push myself, what I gain out of it – the standard I set for myself is that I don't want to finish any project questioning whether or not I’ve done it to the absolute fullest degree that I could, and that’s in skating and in any aspect of my life. And each thing is a motivator and builds confidence for the next thing. I think for some reason I've always been very wary of time in my life.
Kieron: So, it's a two-man race and the other man's you.
Exactly.
Kieron: How do you feel about our relationship? I get a stupid kick out of mentioning skaters’ names to you to get you motivated, I feel like there’s a good rhythm, though a slight bit of manipulation, no pandering and a lot of honesty; something I’m finding to be a real gift.
I definitely think I lean on you for direction/advice in skating and in life in general and in how I’d like to develop the way that my skating comes across in front of a camera. I guess I appreciate it the most when a filmer really tries to understand exactly how you tick and you’re both sort of moving in unison, and I feel in a short amount of time we’ve done exactly that. I think you clocked that one way I get my head around certain spots is imagining how a certain skater would approach it, and you pick your moments wisely to give me the final nudge into trying something. The reality is I really appreciate being pushed by someone in the right way and so the slight manipulation doesn’t go unnoticed nor unsolicited.
One push roll in
Kieron: That's it. We're not racing towards getting the trick done. It’s like, how do we navigate one another to get to the end goal? That's the most fun part about filming people and them trying something that you might be like, "maybe they can't do it, but maybe I'll see if I can push them a little bit further" and then you're like, "Oh, fuck okay!”. The funny thing about being on the other side of the camera is you're like, "shit I better be ready."
It's one of the most rewarding things, the kind of collaborative dance where we're doing something together. And it's very easy to disregard the person on the camera side of someone doing a trick. There's that mental gymnastics that you're both doing to get through it, you know?
Kieron: What about with George, how does that work? What's your opinion of that guy?
Oh, me and George? Well, I've known George for longer through friends in Barcelona, and he has been what’s brought us all together. He makes me laugh way too much, matches my neuroticism and is equally premeditated. We speak a very similar language. When we were organising the Edinburgh trip with all of our work timings and availabilities, we both sent each other spreadsheets at the same fucking time.
Kieron: You're fucking nerds, man. There's no reality where like two of the most handsome people I know get to be such fucking dweebs. Like, it's embarrassing. There's no need for it.
George: We’re just the full package.
One of the main things that's interesting about my perception of George is that all of our relationship has been off of a skateboard. So I don't really know you as a skater. And I'm incredibly excited for you to not be injured. If Kieron says he doesn't know what he's doing and that he's working each day at a time, George has already calculated what Kieron's itinerary is like a week beforehand.
I've viewed you as someone who is like an orchestrator in everything that we do. I'm super hyped to see you not in the van driving seat, but in th…
George: In the theragun seat.
Yeah, and turn some of those claims into clips.
Fs 5050
George: So what about everyone else on the Garden team?
It works as a skate team because everyone brings an element and an approach that is unique to themselves, but also harmonious altogether. What Mani brings is one thing and what Bill brings is something completely different, yet it’s all very complementary. That first Poland trip was a huge motivator for me because it very quickly felt like we’d cracked something, no one was ever off doing their own thing.
Kieron: I mean, in all honesty, man, it was kind of a make-or-break trip. Like had it not gone well, that could have been potentially the nail in the coffin for Garden.
Yeah.
Kieron: It's kind of the thing that emotionally takes the biggest toll and time too. Like seven or eight people and their personal shit and you know, schedules, that's the hard part. But it turned out to be so good, and all of you are rad and care and want to do something good.
George: Are you the most jacked guy on the team? Who could you beat in a fight?
I reckon that Bill is working on some serious functional gains and has some special martial arts wisdom hidden in the tank somewhere. We would have a historic trilogy fight with some lyrical shit talking, going the distance on one if not two of the bouts, most likely ending up hanging out as respecting ex-adversaries through our retirement.
George: And lastly, is there anyone you would like to thank?
A massive thanks to you both, for everything you do, and to Graham Tait for dropping everything and dedicating so much of his time to this on the word of George and Kieron. To Ben Dixon for the continued dedication to filming me over the last 5 years and unshakeable friendship. To my brother Christopher for all the effort and energy he put into making this Mont Blanc fantasy a reality, for coming together to work on something after years of barely hanging out. To my parents. To my nearest and dearest in Barcelona, the UK and elsewhere, you all know who you are. I love you all.
Published in North 44